INTERVIEW WITH JANE GOODALL
Earlier today, Jane Goodall gave the luncheon keynote "Extending the Boundaries of Communication and Caring." Afterwards, she was interviewed by Michelle Ling.
ML: The history and heritage of anthropologists has been destructive toward improving racial and gender relations, and it seems that researchers use the information that they find, and extrapolate in a way that becomes very racist, or sexist or destructive. How can we make sure that we improve our research ethics?
JG: I think that it's only in fairly recent times that we've begun to realize how misused some of the data has been, and now political sensitivities are so much increased. I think now, automatically, the ethical considerations will become more important in the research.
But there is still enormous resentment, I know from talking to some of my Native American friends, in the number of American universities that have literally raided the sacred burial grounds, and I find this very distressing - it's very, very distressing to them, and that's something that absolutely ought to stop.
ML: Yes, for example at UC Berkeley, we have a huge collection from Native California cultures, and an incredible collection on Ishi. I think that it's a wonderful source of information, and without it being at the museum, at the university, I wouldn't have a chance to see it.
JG: It's also the work of grave robbers. Remember, I didn't study anthropology, I studied ethology, which is the study of behavior, usually animal behavior, which is very different, and so very different kinds of ethical problems come into play.
There is no group set up to look into the ethical practices of ethology. And it's terrible - Why in order to understand the beautiful song of a bird should we be allowed to deafen them, to kill them, to slice open their brains? What right to we have to dismember other living beings to find out how they work?
If there's anybody out there on the net who's interested in this kind of thing, it's something that needs to be done. I don't know that there is an ethical group looking over anthropology, but this is something that young people can do. It would make a huge contribution.
ML: My generation of anthropologists have a tandem desire for knowledge about human nature and culture, and an incredible guilt about things like the grave robbing, and the heritage the field carries. How can we search for new ways to do research? It seems that what is needed in terms of improving our world without ruining our environment is nothing less than evolution of our brains.
JG: It's an evolution of morality, of spirituality, not our brains. Our brains and our clever knowhow has led to all the technology and the investigative procedures which sometimes have been very unethical. So, to grow our sense of ethics we need to grow our spirituality and our morality.
ML: How can young people develop a curriculum toward doing that? What shall they study when they go to school?
JG: Well, take biology. Young people go to school and study biology. Well, I know many people who have refused to dissect animals, because the animals are killed for dissection and so increasingly, it's a matter of questioning, Why should I do this? Typically, up to date, this is the way it's done, that's the way you get your degree in biology - you cut up animals.
ML: So you're saying it isn't so much the field that you choose, but the manner in which you study whatever it is?
JG: Yes, yes. And it's all kinds of things. I met a veterinary student the other day. She was in her second year at one of the big vet schools, and I said you're going to have hard work hanging on to your ethics, and she burst into tears. She said it's so difficult, I don't know if I can do it. In vet schools in the U.S., except for those who have made exceptions, you do experimental work on stray dogs and cats who are perfectly healthy, and that's terribly unethical.
ML: I'm 26 and a half, so I'm about a half a generation away from the young people here and a generation and a half away from the adults. Most of the people I know in my generation are bright and well educated. It is not that they don't care. They are just incredibly cynical. How can people my age go out and influence my generation?
JG: You can influence your generation by picking out people who do rather than talk, it doesn't matter whether they do both - they're there. You can find them. Talk to them. Hold them up as living examples of people who are ethical, who give a lot of themselves, try and put things right. That's what you can do.
ML: what scares me is that the problems seem so staggering, that we can't just pick out the people that do the right thing, but we need a sea change in a huge population.
JG: No, if you start thinking like that it's very dangerous, and you'll lose everyone. If you think of all these millions of problems, it's too much. You can plan visions of the future, but it doesn't get you very far.
What you can do is to choose things that make the world around you a better place, and prove that you as an individual and your friends can make a difference. This is a terrible situation, we reckon we can do something about it - look! We've done it. And then to understand that there are other people like you around that place all doing the same.
Nobody can solve the problems of the world. We spend enough time trying, even those in power. Certainly not at your age, you know? You have to learn wisdom - you have to go through the paths of life. Take something small. Everybody. And do it. That's the way. And try and show the young people who are cynical, well, these companies really HAVE changed. These labs that used to torture chimps are not torturing them anymore. Share what you've learned. Share the inspiration.
If you can persuade two people to have your vision about changing this little thing, and they can persuade two, and they can persuade two, you know how quickly it's meant to go around the world? Less than two months! So, if you can persuade two people, each of them do their bit to make the world a better place.
